Template talk:Citation/Archive 3

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Cases

Video Template talk:Citation/Archive 3

to continue to maintain no trailing or internal period

I generally support consistency, wherever possible among all the citation formats, and I think some of the new chages are good, but I have problems with the trailing period, and this is one area I think cites family has gone astray. Not all quotes are sentences. Some quotations are inline, and the other is part of the main text flow. This is especially true when a complete quote appears in the footnotes. For example, you may need to be able to generate quotations like the following:

For example, look at Smith, John (1996), Flabbergusting for Dummies , New York: Random House , which questions the theory that flabbergusting should be classified as a water sport.

For example, see {{Citation | last = Smith | first = John | title = Flabbergusting for Dummies | year = 1996 | publisher = Random House | publication-place = New York}}, which questions the theory that flabbergusting should be classified as water sports.

Quotes has no trailing period from the start, and this has been the assumption of users using this template, so I at least temporarily reverse the changes awaiting further discussion on this issue. Many quotes depend on the fact that there is no trailing period. Also, the internal period seems inconsistent with the use of this quote inline as well. Thanks to Martin, however, on another consistency change, which I think is great for ages.

One possibility is to switch to a kind of "consistency mode" using parameters, and may have a "wrapper" template that calls Citation in that consistency mode. CO GDEN 16:29, July 25, 2008 (UTC)

When referring to in-line references, it is not uncommon to quote the full reference, which is usually given in the "reference" or "bibliography" sections. I do not remember ever seeing this on Wikipedia - can you give some examples in this article about usage? I hope to see your example as one of

For example, see Smith (1996), who questions the theory that flabbergusting should be classified as water sports.

or

For example, see Flabbergusting for Dummies (John Smith, 1996), which questions the theory that flabbergusting should be classified as water sports.

== Reference == Smith, John (1996), Flabbergusting for Dummies , New York: Random House

MartinÃ, (Smith609Ã,-Talk) 19:05, July 25, 2008 (UTC)

What Martin said. There really is not a good reason to use the complete quote template in the complete sentence in the article text. (This of course is where {{Harvnb}} templates really shine.) {{Citation}} must have an additional period. --jbmurray (talk o contribs) 11:38, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

I was unhappy this morning to see do the format of ref in mathematical logic has changed total Call. I surethat is not the only article doing make assumptions of do-you-can string more after template quotes, like this: Fraenkel, Abraham A. (1922), "The term 'definite' and freedom of choice axioms," Proceedings of the Prussian Academy of science, physical class and mathematics , pp.Ã, 253-257 Ã, (German), reprinted in English translation as" definite idea "and freedom of choice axioms," van Heijenoort 1976 pp. 284-289.

Who kills accessdate? It no longer shows at all. Sandy Georgia (talk) 02:22, July 26, 2008 (UTC)

See the two parts: #accessdate deletion, with a link to the discussion. --Alex (ASHill | talk | contribs) 02:27, July 26, 2008 (UTC)

The thread has been moved to the archive -> Template talk: Citation/Archive 2 # removal of the access date. --User: Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 01:44, May 23, 2009 (UTC)

Maps Template talk:Citation/Archive 3

parameter problem

For several weeks now, the parameter | the issue will no longer display correctly in the {{citation}} template, as there is less space before the brackets. See eg. ref # 15 in Unending ( TV Zone one). Nothing major, but if someone with the power of the admin can fix this, I'll be grateful. - sgeureka ^toc 19:13, July 31, 2008 (UTC)

This is a consequence of Martin's change; see #Proposal to combine excessive citation templates. I do not know why he wiped the room, or even if he was intentional or not, so I'll ask him to comment. - Jitse Niesen (talk) 20:34, July 31, 2008 (UTC)

NB: The thread referenced above has been moved to the archive -> Template talk: Quote/Archive 2 # Proposal to combine excessive citation templates. - User: Ceyockey ( ) 01:50, May 23, 2009 (UTC)

The Harvard reference style, used by this template implicitly, does not contain spaces before the bracket. It seems odd to create a new style of reference instead of using an established standard. MartinÃ, (Smith609Ã,-Talk) 20:40, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Which Harvard style description do you use? I find it hard to believe that style guides will recommend us to set references in Unending that Sgeureka mean as it is now. Maybe I should explain that the question is about what to do when no volume number is present. - Jitse Niesen (talk) 20:53, July 31, 2008 (UTC)

Ah, okay - I did not see the layout. Obviously there is little change that needs to be done: enter

 {{# if: {{{volume |}}} || }} 

right before the bracket, and spaces will appear unless the volume is determined. Feel free to make a {{editprotected}} request if it will fix it. MartinÃ, (Smith609Ã,-Talk) 21:35, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

{{editprotected}} Request for admin: Please change this template as Martin suggested above, generating additional space in case you wish. (Thanks everyone.) - sgeureka ^toc 05:18, August 1, 2008 (UTC)

Done. - Jitse Niesen (talk) 13:38, August 1, 2008 (UTC)

src: upload.wikimedia.org

issues for third parties

Third parties in the past have been known to use the templates name to know what type of quote is used (how do we know that wikipedia cites high impact journals more often than to pronounce distinctive scientific papers).Geni 22:28, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Huh? Why are you using different templates to quote a paper in Nature than for one in The Unnotable Journal of Inconsequential Science? And why do people like that not only find the source for the phrase "| journal = #####" to list the cited journals? MartinÃ, (Smith609Ã,-Talk) 22:34, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

"Unknown Unknowledge Journal" is still an official journal. Things like newspapers and books do not. Geni 23:03, August 3, 2008 (UTC)

But "nature" is a high-impact journal, and typical scientific papers may end up in "The Journal of Precious Science". MartinÃ, (Smith609Ã, Talk) 12:48, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Finding sources is not as effective as using what links here. Then you hit the problem that you've gotten pretty much from non-jounals. Adding is not good. Geni 23:05, August 3, 2008 (UTC)

Trying to draw conclusions based on a template used has an amazing potential error. A completely different quote style might have been used, such as not using any template, using Template quotes, or using a date-writing system. Journal articles can be cited with the Cite web because the online version is available. Although this problem can be reduced by ignoring the absolute number of citations, and simply comparing the relative amounts of Web quoting, quoting books, quoting news, citing journals, etc., there may be systematic biases so authors who like to quote high quality journals are more or less likely to use templates in the Cite family rather than the average editor than the editors who use those places. --Gerry Ashton (talk) 23:19, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

The approach used is to use a quoting journal, delete all non-journals, then calculate what's left. Geni 23:34, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

If you want, I can have a bot to list each journal name quoted and how many times it is referenced. (A human still has to identify duplicates such as J. Bot = Botanical Journal "MartinÃ, (Smith609Ã,-Talk) 12:48, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

So is it still possible with the change system? I do not need demonstraition practice. Geni

yes. MartinÃ, (Smith609Ã, Talk) 13:52, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

src: greg.org

Foreign language source

In citation templates, is there any way of entering an English translation from a reference written in another language, or a pointer to the fact that it's not in English? Like Goethe, J. V., "So schoen ist es am Griebnitzsee" ["Ah, beautiful Griebnitzsee"] (in German). German Objects Journal , 42 (1989), 56-58? Markus Poessel (talk) 21:05, August 7, 2008 (UTC)

Can say something like: Goethe, JV (1989), "So schoen ist es am Griebnitzsee", German Journal of Objects , 42 : 56-58 (in German, the title is in English translation: " Ah, pretty Griebnitzsee "). - Boracay Bill (talk)

That is of course the solution, leaving it out of the template altogether. I hope there might be a way to include this information with template data. Markus Poessel (talk) 20:39, August 14, 2008 (UTC)

src: upload.wikimedia.org

Date format

Why does this template force access to the international style, even when the editor enters the US style? Articles can not consistently use one date format style if articles written in US English have date quotes written in international style. The template overrides what the editor included, changing July 23 to July 23, so editors using this template are forced to manually configure accessdates outside the template. Sandy Georgia (Speak) 15:21, August 10, 2008 (UTC)

Sandy, this template uses date template for access date. There you find an explanation of the formatting. HTH, --EnOreg (talk) 18:58, August 10, 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, EnOreg; so, we wait for bugs fixed?

• However, this function (not confused with date wikilinking) is disabled waiting for bug resolution # 4582. Meanwhile, June 22, 2018 will display the date in 'year month' format (eg August 9, 2008) for the date of year 1970 and 2038.

Sandy Georgia (Speak) 19:01, August 10, 2008 (UTC)

src: greg.org

Merge

{{editprotected}} Is there any way we can merge all other "quotes" like citing videos, quoting podcasts, etc.? --I Editorofthewiki ^{[need citation] ]} 17:03, August 12, 2008 (UTC)

Did you read #Proposal to combine excessive citation templates? Consensus seems to maintain a separate template, but to seek consistency. --Knesnesky (talk) 17:43, August 12, 2008 (UTC)

Audio Quotes do not have an equivalent of "quotes". This has caused problems on Wikipedia: Flagship article candidate/1964 Gabon coup d'ÃÆ' Â © tat. I propose to add these features. - Editorofthewiki ^{23:28, 18 August 2008 (UTC)}

]

Edit request is disabled. Please use this only when you are ready for the admin to make edits. --- RockMFR 01:53, August 19, 2008 (UTC)

src: upload.wikimedia.org

COINS

COINS metadata [1] will pass the rft.series data associated with the series parameter. As an example

• {{quote | first = AD | last = Aleksandrov | authorlink = Aleksandr Danilovich Aleksandrov | first2 = VA | last2 = Zalgaller | title = Surface Geometry Instrument | volume = 15 | series = Translation of the Mathematical Monograph | publisher = American Mathematical Society | year = 1967}}

punya

• & lt; span class = "Z3988" title = "ctx_ver = Z39.88-2004 & amp; rft_val_fmt = info% 3Aofi% 2Ffmt% 3Akev% 3Amtx% 3Abook & amp; rft.genre = buku & amp; rft.title = Instrinsik Geometri Permukaan & amp; rft.aulast = Aleksandrov & amp; rft.aufirst = AD & amp; rft.date = 1967 & amp; rft.volume = 15 & amp; rft.pub = American Mathematical Society "& gt;

It seems like all that's needed is

{{# if: {{{Series |}}} | & amp; rft.series = {{urlencode: {{{Series}}}}}}}

but I hesitate to edit the high usage template. --Salix alba (talk) 14:12, August 22, 2008 (UTC)

src: pbs.twimg.com

interwiki links

{{Editprotected}}

I want to add the fr: Modèle: Citation WikipÃÆ' Â © he anglaise to template, thanks. MRO (talk) 14:43, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Done. For future reference, interwiki links are in Templates: Excerpts/documents, which are not protected, so you can do it yourself. - Jitse Niesen (talk) 17:28, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

src: 1.bp.blogspot.com

format parameter

The format parameter does not appear to be documented, or I do not see it? - Malal Fatuorum (talk) 17:43, September 5, 2008 (UTC)

Quotes until recently are not compatible with quoted journals, and they are part of an additional sequence that may never have been documented (and yes, that's how we ended up with a PDF problem at Johnson, when someone insisted that we use this inferior template, which is now somewhat corrected :-) I suggest to see the full documentation in the quotation journal. Sandy Georgia (Speak) 17:50, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Johnson's question is what prompted me to look at the source code of this template, as you might have guessed. Actually though, I quite liked this template, even if the documentation is not fully up-to-date. :-) --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 17:57, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

src: ac-ie.org

Harvnb and this template is not playing well together

... in Harry Murray's article, {{Harvnb}} did not play well with {{Citation}}. The link does not work, because the first one is (for example) linking to CITEREFFrankiSlatyer2003 and the last one to CITEREF_Franki_Slatyer_2003.... any thoughts? Ling.Nut ^{(talk - WP: 3IAR)} 04:11, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

{{Citation}} in the article for example, the ref = CITEREF_Franki_Slatyer_2003 parameter specifies which impose it. I deleted this. - Boracay Bill (talk) 04:31, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

& lt; hitting the forehead & gt; I hereby lose my status as a person who has a strong understanding of the obvious. Thanks for the looksee. Ling.Nut ^{(talk - WP: 3IAR)} 04:35, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

src: media.springernature.com

Bug?

There seems to be a problem with the new "format" parameter, because it does not display the format unless the "periodic" parameter is also set. Here's an example, which contains two {{citation needed | date = {{subst: CURRENTMONTHNAME}} {{subst: CURRENTYEAR}}}} s to the website. Does not display pdf format unless periodic parameter is added. - Malal Fatuorum (talk) 18:29, September 10, 2008 (UTC)

It seems that the problem is that 'Anyone with the title, including the book section' of the quote/core does not specify format parameters, but specifies URL parameters. I do not have time to test any changes at this time, but adding a format parameter to that section will fix the bug. That part also seems to lose the language parameter. --Ã, Carl (CBMÃ, Ã, Â · talk) 19:24, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

src: ac-ie.org

COINS error

{{Editprotected}}

There is a small bug in the tagging of COINS;

 {{{Journal |}}} 

should be replaced with

 {{{Publication |}}} 

where it appears in the Template: Excerpt/core (1 frequency).

Thank you,

Martin (Smith609Â-Talk) 19:57, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Dan yang lain...

{{Editprotected}}

Many authors must be registered in COINS information. The correct format, as listed at http://generator.ocoins.info/, will be generated by replacing

  Â Â Â Â {{  Â Â Â Â Â Â #if: {{{Surname1 |}}} | & amp; rft.aulast = {{urlencode: {{{Surname1}}}}}  Â Â Â}} {{  Â Â Â Â Â Â #if: {{{Given1 |}}} | & amp; rft.aufirst = {{urlencode: {{{Given1}}}}}  Â Â Â}} 

dengan

 {{       #if: {{{Surname1 |}}} | & amp; rft.au = {{urlencode: {{{Surname1}}}}}       {{         #if: {{{Given1 |}}} | {{urlencode:, {{{Given1}}}}} & amp; rft.aufirst = {{urlencode: {{{Given1}}}}} & amp; rft.aulast = {{urlencode: {{{Surname1}}}}}       }}     }}     {{       #if: {{{Surname2 |}}} | & amp; rft.au = {{urlencode: {{{Surname2}}}}}       {{         #if: {{{Given2 |}}} | {{urlencode :, {{{Given2}}}}}       }}     }}  

(in the Template: Excerpt/core).

I would be grateful if someone could make that change. Thanks, Martin (Smith609Ã,-Talk) 20:11, September 14, 2008 (UTC)

I have updated Coin meta data. Change

• Change #if: {{{Journal |}}} to #if: {{{Periodical |}}}
• Periodicals now have info: ofi/fmt: kev: mtx: journals
• rft.jtitle, rft.atitle is used for journals, rft.btitle, rft.atitle is used for books. In contrast to rft.title
• Authors up to 9 lists in rft.au
• add the rft.series tag when needed for the series book
• {{{Place}}} is no longer in use, as duplicated
• rft_id = info: doi/{{urlencode: {{doi}}}}} is used instead of rft_id = info: doi/{{urlencode: {{{DOI}}}}} as Template: Citation passes doi than DOI to Citation/core. This seems to go to a generalized capitalization scheme, and there is also some code in the core that DOI uses for something.
• rft_id = info: bibcode, and rft_id = info: oclcnum tag added when available
• added and rfr_id = info: sid/en.wikipedia.org: {{FULLPAGENAMEE}} so sources can be viewed

Also capitalize the correct Bibcode in the main part of the template. There are still some bugs if people enter the [[Cambridge University Press]] link at the publisher then the box brackets are passed, which is less than optimal. The rft.genre is just one book, bookitem or article. Processes and other genera are not missed. --Salix alba (talk) 23:40, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Incredible, thank you very much. Now my Endnote plugin will work fine! MartinÃ, (Smith609Ã,-Talk) 16:20, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Period, not comma

There should be a period after the author and date, not a comma. Can this be fixed? Badagnani (talk) 07:10, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

origyear

Template: Quote book allows for origyear parameters. Can this be added to the Template: Citation as well? --Ã,¾-10 16:37, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Can someone unlink the date in the citation template?

Hi, per MOS: UNLINKDATES, can someone fix the citation template so that the auto-date is not automatically linked in the reference? Thanks, NJGW (talk) 04:48, September 23, 2008 (UTC)

I can not see the consensus for the proposal. Wikipedia talk: The Style Manual (date and number)/Archive 110 ends with a proposal to unlink the bulk. And history of MOS reversal: DATE is far off to say this problem is solved. --Salix alba (talk) 05:43, September 23, 2008 (UTC)

I do not see it there... all I see is disagreement about how to get the date to show up correctly. Can you quote the part you're talking about? NJGW (talk) 05:54, September 23, 2008 (UTC)

Looks like nothing can be done in the template code. The date format is basically just what is used in the parameters date = and accessdate = . --Salix alba (talk) 06:34, September 23, 2008 (UTC)

How does the parameter look to change? NJGW (talk) 06:36, September 23, 2008 (UTC)

It all depends on the parameters passed in with accessdate = 2008-01-28 | date = 1851-01-28

Turner, O. (1851-01-28), Historical Settlement History , William Alling , retrieved < span> 2008-01-28 CS1 maint: Date and year (link)

dengan accessdate = [[January 28]] [[2008]] | date = [[January 28]] [[1851]]

Turner, O. (28 Januari 1851), Sejarah Penyelesaian Pioneer , William Alling , diambil Januari 28 2008 CS1 maint: Tanggal dan tahun (tautan)

dengan accessdate = [[28 Januari]] [[2008]] | tanggal = [[28 Januari]] [[1851]]

Turner, O. (28 Januari 1851), Sejarah Penyelesaian Pioneer , William Alling , diambil 28 Januari 2008 CS1 maint: Tanggal dan tahun (tautan)

the exact output depends on your preference. --Salix alba (talk) 07:09, September 23, 2008 (UTC)

What I mean is, how does the global output change? I realize the input affects it, but for each input given from one parameter, where one will go to change the output? NJGW (talk) 07:14, September 23, 2008 (UTC)

When signed in as NJGW , you'll see a line like

NJGW My talks My preferences My watch list My contributions Exit

at the top right of the web page. Click My preferences . On the page that displays, click the Date and time tab. - Boracay Bill (talk) Boracay Bill (talk) 07:27, September 23, 2008 (UTC)

That's not the question I asked. As you know, Ohconfucius claims to dislike using citation templates because they cause the formatted date to appear as a link in the reference section. I am wondering how this is handled (your prefs show I only display date format, there is nothing about connecting). NJGW (talk) 07:31, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

et al

With more than three authors, the patent template (see example on the documentation page) generates

Degermark, Mikael; Andrej Brodnik & amp; Svante Carlsson et al.,

Is not an excessive ampersand if et al. included, and can not et al . should be sloped?

MartinÃ, (Smith609Ã,-Talk) 03:38, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

• I agree that ampersand is overkill. Given that et al. used regularly in English (such as other Latin abbreviations such as for example, vs. etc.) italization is not really necessary. TheFeds 01:26, 31 December 2008 ( UTC)

options for archive-url and archive-data

How can we use the #citeref function of the Template: Harvnb, etc., to link to a mulitple quote from a year with the same author? In my case, they are newspaper articles and magazines. The standard in the insertion reference is (Smith 2008a) (Smith 2008b) and the citation template has no issues with it. But I do not see how to force #citeref to be Smith2008a . Ã, Â ·: Ã, Â · Will Beback Ã, Â ·: Ã, Â · 22:19, October 1, 2008 (UTC)

Use for example {{Harvnb | Smith | 2008 | Ref = CITEREFSmith2008a}} paired with {{Citation |... | ref = CITEREFSmith2008a}} - note the capital 'R' in {{Harvnb}}, etc.) - Boracay Bill (talk) 01:38, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you! Ã, Â ·: Ã, Â · Will Beback Ã, Â ·: Ã, Â · 01:51, October 2, 2008 (UTC)

You do not have to "force" #citeref to 'Smith2008a'. This will be automatic when your reference is {{harvnb | Smith | 2008a}}.

And, when you have '(Smith 2008a) (Smith 2008b)' you must also have {{citation}} that reflects year = 2008a , year = 2008b . #citerefs will also automatically match.

In other words, use year = and optionally date = , but do date = instead. A/b/c/etc can not be clearly deduced from date = . - Fullstop (talk) 12:51, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

I tried to do that, but if there is a date then it ignores the year field. Because some quotes are newspapers, they have complete dates. I did the test in my sandbox, User: Will Beback/Sandbox. Feel free to edit it. Maybe I just typed in there. Ã, Â ·: Ã, Â · Will Beback Ã, Â ·: Ã, Â · 06:36, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

With a little shake, I think I made it. I will try it in the article, Millennium '73. Ã, Â ·: Ã, Â · Will Beback Ã, Â ·: Ã, Â · 06:56, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it worked. Ã, Â ·: Ã, Â · Will Beback Ã, Â ·: Ã, Â · 04:58, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Need agency = field for news source

Agency parameters = added to the {{cite news}} template to correctly capture and format the news agency (eg Associated Press, Reuters, etc.) In the news. It also needs to be added here. It appears after the cited title, but before the works are italicized in standard fonts. Dhaluza (talk) 00:39, October 2, 2008 (UTC)

Since sometimes the only source listed for an article, should it be used as a writer if there is no other author's name in the template? Ã, Â ·: Ã, Â · Be Beback Ã, Â ·: Ã, Â · 00:58, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

For one, it does not work when the name of the author is known (eg for the syndicated column). Secondly, it is not officially true to do that (someone will need something like "AP writer staff").

I do not think it's useful to know that the "foo" article in a bar publishing originally came from a wire agent. Anyway, it's the 'foo in the bar' being quoted. Also, the original wire story may differ from what is actually quoted.

However, there are other circumstances where the "x" ** field may be required, and such fields can also be used for the agency =. I have recommended a field like that before, so here goes again. @, - Fullstop (talk) 13:44, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
** Whatever the generic name for the field it may be; [contribution-] type =, -object =, -class =, -container =, -format =, -media =... whatever.

According to Wiki Answering, wire services should not be included in the author field (also many wire service stories have authors as stated above). Dhaluza (talk) 22:44, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Right. As I said, "it is not formally correct to do that."

Anyway... even if the name of an agency is not very useful (does not help find the source cited), it is not a good idea (for the reasons mentioned above),... what should be generic > field (to include 'agency' and other things mentioned) are named? Or put in another way: since each chapter/contribution in a larger work can theoretically stand alone, what is the "tag" of a stand-alone job in accordance with the desired tag of the chapter/contribution (in the work)? - Fullstop (talk) 17:38, October 6, 2008 (UTC)

I do not agree that agencies are useless. First, if the source is wiringervice, and the story happens to be quoted from a particular newspaper, it is relevant (ie that the story is not written by a local reporter, and the author actually works for the agency). Also for WP purposes, especially WP: N, some stories from the same wire service are thought to come from the same source. A wireservice can be considered a more reliable source in certain cases as well. Regarding your specific comments about usability, it certainly helps to find the source cited when the original linked content is lost, but other works that use the same material can be found. Dhaluza (talk) 01:16, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Dhaluza points. Also, the Anonymous Wiki Answers page does not look certain. While MLA may have its standards, for WP purposes, more information is better. Ã, Â ·: Ã, Â · Will Beback Ã, Â ·: Ã, Â · 01:46, October 7, 2008 (UTC)

(outdent)

* sigh * Beginner's guide to quotes...

• The purpose of the quote is to lead the reader as close as possible to the cited source . Quotes have no other purpose. The quotation itself is neither a source nor an essay on its source. A quote is an identifier that tells the reader how to find the source the author uses . Anything that does not contribute to that goal - at best - is meaningless. At worst, non-contribution information can even be counter-productive because it can mislead or distract from the purpose of the quotation.
• The editor needs to quote the source in their ownership . Without also having wire service articles, the editor can not guarantee that newspapers reproduce the exact same text, or with the same title. But if an editor also has a wire service article, then the wire service can be quoted directly Giving an agency name is like giving the name of the publisher of the previous edition. Since it is not the source used, it is also not related to the quote.

-

• Overcoming Will Beback's "for WP purposes, more information is better"...
  "for WP purposes, more information is better" is simply not true. Wikipedia is not a haphazard collector of information, and the exact purpose of quotation is no different in WP than elsewhere. "Further information" did not pass Occam razor; quotes are precision tools with one purpose. They are not their own mini-encyclopedias. If it helps, one can think of a quote as a home address. It is possible to add a great deal of information to the address, such as who built the house. But to find the right house, it is not useful to know who built the house, and the foreign information will only prevent the courier coming to pick up the goods.
• Address Dhaluza's record in WP: N/WP: RS...
  WP: N/WP: RS has a link to sources , not on citations . The quote is just a pointer to the source, not the source itself. Quotes can not by itself increase or decrease the uncertainty of a topic or the reliability of the source. Such a step requires an evaluation of the editor's resources . Such evaluations (or negotiations thereof) are also included in the speaking space; it is OR when it appears in the article space, and it certainly should not be declared an "approval" tag in the quotation.
  As far as the WP: N relationship with quotes is concerned: nothing can be compelled to name the agency, so WP: N can not be deduced from the number of times the name of an agency appears in the citation list. Ergo, the WP: N corner is debated As far as the WP relationship: RS with quotes is concerned: the objective benchmark of the reliability of quotations is whether the quotes succeed in directing the reader to the quoted source. Quote reliable if successful do that, and can not be relied upon if it fails to do so.

But all this really does not matter. I have twice posted the question (above) which requires thinking about how the field can be implemented in general. Whether an editor then chooses to turn the quote into a mini-essay about the source is up to him. That they can also do without misusing the citation template. - Fullstop (talk) 00:24, October 8, 2008 (UTC)

Literally, your first claim (that everything you do not need to find the source should be omitted) would imply that we should replace multiple instances of {{citation}} by an empty DOI link. I do not think we want that far... --David Eppstein (talk) 00:29, October 8, 2008 (UTC)

(ec) Heh. That is not a literal interpretation. This is centric-machine interpretation and web-centric. The digital object identifier (with or without URL-ization) is what the quote engine is eligible for educated humans. They achieve the same thing, that is, finding objects. One way to use the machine, and the other using the human brain. But even if human beings are capable of understanding machine-readable addresses, a human readable form would be excessive, but not de trop. But, no, we do not want to get too far to assume that humans can understand "10.1000/182" (or other target-machine addressing types). But this also seems to be OT. - Fullstop (talk) 02:13, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

The information that appears in the quotation is nothing more than helping the reader find the source. It also tells the reader about the source. Knowing that articles come from wire services helps readers evaluate their credibility, and helps other editors decide on their reliability. I see no reason to exclude information if available. All that means adding another field to the template. Ã, Â ·: Ã, Â · Will Beback Ã, Â ·: Ã, Â · 01:59, October 8, 2008 (UTC)

How, um, read the last paragraph from what I wrote earlier? - Fullstop (talk) 02:13, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, the Response link you provided shows the placement of the wire service after the title of the article and before the periodic name. Ã, Â ·: Ã, Â · Will Beback Ã, Â ·: Ã, Â · 02:21, October 8, 2008 (UTC)

Yes, yes. But what is the generic name of the "after-the-title-and-before-the-periodical-name" slot (which in this template language is actually "after-the-chapter/contribution-and-before-the-title") ?

Periodicals aka Journal alias Newspaper alias Magazine is just one of the "type" quotations required by this template. So, if we create something new, it should be done in a way that can be used in general as well.

I have listed [contribution-] types =, -object =, -class =, -container =, -format =, -media =. The mail-style header ala -x-info ala also comes to mind. Any more suggestions? - Fullstop (talk) 03:48, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Will Beback that quotes not only tell the reader how to find the source. If that's the case, a bare DOI will suffice. We also cite to credit the original author. In this case, wireservice is part of authorship - it is the author's employer and the source of his credibility, probably up to a much greater degree than the editor of his published work. For purposes of WP: V, WP: NPOV, and WP: Our RS also uses quotes to assess credibility and source bias, and even to assess WP: Notability of the subject. Dhaluza (talk) 11:20, October 8, 2008 (UTC)

Wtf? Be there, do it all. Is my response invisible or something? If not, can you try to say something that has not been addressed? It would be really cool if such a response also really goes somewhere. For example, if it follows the immediately before yours, or the third before yours, or the fifth before yours, or the seventh before yours. That would be great. thanks. - Fullstop (talk) 13:26, October 8, 2008 (UTC)

Oh, are you only allowed to respond to the last poster? I do not know it. I think you should post down and indent to show what you are responding to. Dhaluza (talk) 02:06, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

"Wireservice" will look like a sensible name for the slot. And do not heat up about this. Ã, Â ·: Ã, Â · Will Beback Ã, Â ·: Ã, Â · 04:36, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

The WP article on this subject is entitled: The news agency. I believe this is a more general term, and less ancient than "wireservice" since most of the cables have been replaced with fiber optic communications. Dhaluza (talk) 07:09, October 9, 2008 (UTC)

Even better. Ã, Â ·: Ã, Â · Will Beback Ã, Â ·: Ã, Â · 07:30, October 9, 2008 (UTC)

Archive

It should not have this template get two parameters

  {{quotes quotations  ...  Â Â | archiveurl =  Â Â | archived =  ...  }}  

like on {{Cite web}}? Nsaa (talk) 11:35, October 12, 2008 (UTC)

Indeed. See above: "options for archive-url and archive-data". User: RossPatterson is working on it. User: Nillerdk (talk) 10:01, October 16, 2008 (UTC)

{{editprotected}}

This can now be implemented with a new template. Please copy Template: quote/Sandbox to Template: Quote. (Testcases all look fine.) MartinÃ, (Smith609Ã,-Talk) 23:08, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Done Stifle (talk) 14:57, January 16, 2009 (UTC)

Minor changes are possible as a result of updates Template: Quote journal

Please check that there are no bugs in Template: Quote/sandbox, in the unlikely event that changing the citation architecture arising from the update to Template: The journal quotation has a significant effect on the output of this template. MartinÃ, (Smith609Ã,-Talk) 18:21, October 13, 2008 (UTC)

{{editprotected}}

Since no bugs have been reported, can admin make the following changes? (Also prompted at the talks Template: Quote the journal, duplicated here for completeness.

• Replace Template: Quote journal with Template: Quote journal/sandbox
• Replace Template: Quote/core with Template: Quote/core/sandbox
• Replace Template: Quote with Template: Quote/sandbox

This will ensure that Citation is not affected by some minor changes in Citation/core required for integration with Template: Cite journal. Thanks, Martin (Smith609Ã,-Talk) 14:33, October 25, 2008 (UTC)

Done (all 3) SkierRMH ( talk ) 03:57, October 26, 2008 (UTC)

Thank you very much! MartinÃ, (Smith609Ã,-Talk) 4:44, October 26, 2008 (UTC)

I thought there might be a bug. See below. Please cancel. Thank you very much. --jbmurray (talk o contribs) 06:04, October 26, 2008 (UTC)

Note - all of them returned SkierRMH ( talk ) 06:11, October 26, 2008 (UTC)

Many thanks. --jbmurray (talk o contribs) 06:52, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

I have now created Templates: Page quotes/testcases that compare live versions with sandbox versions. Note that the links transcluded in Template: Quote/sandbox need to be changed from {{Citation/core/sandbox}} to {{Citation/core}} when copying. There are still some bugs in the test cabinet. --Salix (talk): 08:18, October 26, 2008 (UTC)

I think I have found a bug. Bug, we need more testing before it goes live. --Salix (talk): 09:07, October 26, 2008 (UTC)

Everything is fine for me. What further testing is there in your mind, given that the process has been going on for several months? MartinÃ, (Smith609Ã, Talk) 14:50, October 26, 2008 (UTC)

Can you show me the discussions and tests that have taken place over the past few months? Thank you very much. --jbmurray (talk o contribs) 03:48, October 27, 2008 (UTC)

See here and here. MartinÃ, (Smith609Ã, -Ã, Talk) 20:23, 2 Novembe

Source of the article : Wikipedia